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Pre-registration for Kinesis Virtual Card is now open

THIS IS AN UNOFFICIAL PLACEHOLDER POST TO ACCOMODATE THE DISCUSSION IN PROGRESS ON A NEWLY AVAILABLE FEATURE ON THE KINESIS WEBSITE.

As of Monday 30th September, pre-registration for the new Kinesis Virtual Card is now possible via the Kinesis web app.

Details here:

with links on that page to indicate
  • the expanded list of countries currently covered
  • fees
  • Pre-registration T&C's


I will be moving a number of posts from
to this thread.
 
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Or here, under virtual card:

 
No more 1% fee on the basic plan?
This is the linked fees page:


By default, it lands on Assets. Look to the right and click on Virtual Card.
No mention of 1% fee.
This looks like a significant plus to me.

As Jai indicated in Vaultside episode 4:
It's something that will be very palatable and something that people will you know the idea is for it to be a product that someone will absolutely give it a go so with the card launch the whole package of the virtual card is to make this just be one really beautiful product that barriers of entry just don't exist.


No US support is a disapointment.
Again, from Vaultside episode 4:
However, we are absolutely working on bringing the US online, and we're making good progress there. And I can't go too much into exactly when all that's happening, but sometimes I wish I could give a little bit more.

I don't want to try and be evasive, but we're making great progress, and it's not too far away, I will tell you that, if everything goes according to plan. And sometimes we're beholden to different policy and regulatory changes that sometimes just put us a little bit on the back foot because things change and then a program will have new parameters or will need new things so all being constant and the environment not drastically changing again, we are on track for US as well.



Canada is supported but Metalback isnt which is non intuitive.
Different scheme partners.
There are many more supported countries listed for the virtual card than for Merchant Metalback.
 
"We will update Kinesis users as soon as BAANX have provided a timeline for the completion of the migration."

We still dont have that..
 
Stated that Kinesis virtual card can be used anywhere globally, that mastercard is accepted.
I believe, is not an accurate statement. [ Mastercard is accepted in Thailand ]
So does that place me in the can I, can't I catergory.
If you are in a country where you can get the card then you can use that card anywhere Mastercard is accepted
 
One other thing, perhaps the best, is Kinesis gets 1% (I’m guessing from merchant fees) going into the MFP on these capped spends. 1.22% in total??
I guessed incorrectly about the 1% coming from the merchant. It’s coming from Kinesis itself. My next guess where this 1% metal to MFP is being sourced from and I strongly believe that it’s coming from is the 20% partner slice of the MFP. For 5 years it has been accumulating without any distribution (zero partners up to this point). That pool should last quite awhile and partners will take some time to mostly saturate their 20% stake with their referrals (we’d be interstellar by then). It could be years before that pool of money is exhausted. Furthermore, 0.2% goes back to its own pool plus one fifth of the 0.22% making 0.244% in total recycling, ergo, it’s only really a 0.756% impost upon that part of the fee pool. As fees come in from Kinesis Pro, Indonesia, MetalBack, perhaps the fee pool might never get exhausted and could conceivably be % increased or cap increased (I think the latter). I think this would be brilliant if this was the case.
 
Probably something else I haven’t factored in is the 1.75% (or so) that the card provider will charge. This is uncapped too. Kinesis will have to come up with this. The partner fee pool has about 105K KAU and 25K KAG currently.
 
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Now that more information has emerged it seems that
Baanx discontinued Optimus cards to sign up with Monavate. The Monavate card that has been promoted these past 3 months is designed to work with custodial wallets. So it appears that Kinesis has had to custom code their back end to be compliant with the card Baanx is now providing.

Let's hope this is a final change.
 
Guys maybe I am thick..but if I pay the $77 card fee (instead of free card option) everything I buy gets 1.88% cheaper (2% - 0.22%)?? Up to a max of $2000 / month of course.

This is like a no brainer... and fights back inflation with 1.78% :)

I am just weary because there is no such thing as a free lunch...am I missing something?
 
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It’s a no brainier if you’re prepared to regularly spend. It would probably suit most of us who easily spend the cap on groceries, fuel and utilities. Some other people might be happy with a no fees, no rewards card.
There’s no free lunch. While the exact details of which part of Kinesis the money is coming from is unclear, it’s basically Kinesis’ ethos to share as much of the incoming fees back to all of the different types of end users and participants. Banks, on the other hand, charge fees to both merchants and customers and don’t automatically redistribute the fees back to their different stakeholders. This makes the banks vulnerable to the sort of competition Kinesis is creating. That’s how I see it, anyway.
 
It’s a no brainier if you’re prepared to regularly spend. It would probably suit most of us who easily spend the cap on groceries, fuel and utilities. Some other people might be happy with a no fees, no rewards card.
There’s no free lunch. While the exact details of which part of Kinesis the money is coming from, it’s basically Kinesis’ ethos to share as much of the incoming fees back to all of the different types of end users and participants. Banks, on the other hand, charge fees to both merchants and customers and don’t automatically redistribute the fees back to their different stakeholders. This makes the banks vulnerable to the sort of competition Kinesis is creating. That’s how I see it, anyway.
If trade execution and FX are the only fees then this offering seems like a marked improvement over other execution and point of sale (vs pre loaded) cards out there. So with good marketing and reputation you could get the crowd that just want to hold and spend crypto and that in time might be some good $$ for the MFP
 
Most people in the UK can’t help but spend over £2,000 per month on council tax, rent/mortgage, food, energy & travel, leaving very little from the median £2,334 per month salary* and it’s not just the UK.

Intensely close examination of wafer-thin margins between cards is natural and a new entrant must beat current offerings, but close-ups of the wafer can obscure the bigger picture of the host itself.

It looks as if, with the improved percentages on the refreshed VDC, combined with Metalback and rising yields paid in gold, Kinesis is already the best option, with the prospect of racing away with the lead in the future.

Equally important is whether your existing bank will survive the next ‘completely unforeseen’ financial meltdown; you know, the ones that happen every ten years or so.

My bet, which is the amount I’ve invested and will commit in the future, is that Kinesis is far more likely to survive, indeed prosper, in the next emergency because:

1)Kinesis is based on sound money, automatically giving it far more stable foundations. It is not based on fractional reserve banking that is bound to fail;

2)Kinesis is geographically dispersed, which adds a huge regulatory effort, but makes it less subject to the whims of a single jurisdiction;

3)Kinesis is on the bleeding edge of blockchain-based, fintech innovation, with a recent indication that it holds some patents in the space. Intellectual property is key in establishing companies’ valuations;

4)Despite this leading role, it continues to pay monthly yields in physical gold and silver;

5)Companies that don’t innovate simply die. Shelf life is contracting generally as different technologies feed off each other via instant communication. What real imnovation has TradFi itself chosen to introduce in the last ten years, rather than being forced to copy others? Closing branches doesn’t count;

6)Kinesis is based on the two precious metals without which modern life ceases to exist;

7)The management team continue to prove that it’s not the usual ‘sell-their-and-your-grandma’ types;

8)The aim is a fair-for-all monetary system, based on shared benefits, which is the opposite of the slow and deliberate mass immiseration currently deployed.

None of my current banking arrangements satisy all the above criteria. The Co-op account, a relic of student times that I’ve never changed, comes closest with its community ethos, but it’s fiat based, UK only and doesn’t pay yields. We just accept these aspects until genuine challengers appear.

Kinesis will increasingly be able to provide trusted returns of, as well as returns on, investments, with minimum risk; Lehmann, CSFB and many others cannot.

Those were two of the biggest financial institutions, employing the smartest people (with cost bases to match), on the planet.

What other zombie banks are stumbling toward that cliff with our cash? When others fail, someone will have to provide a trusted, working monetary system.

*

 
if I pay the $77 card fee (instead of free card option)
This is like a no brainer

Indeed.
Also bear in mind that everyone that can get the card at the start of the promotion period can get the paid plan for no cost for 6 months.
This way, you can test it out, see what your spend is and therefore the built up amount of cashback, before committing to paying for the paid plan going forward.

I've contrasted the new card offering with the old one below.

Fees
The old card had charges of 1.95% card fee + 0.22% trade commission, giving a net cost 2.17%.
0.95% out of the 1.95% went into the fee pool, so as a KMS participant, you'd have received part of this back, depending on your participation types.

The new card has cashback of 2% - 0.22% trade commission, giving a net benefit of 1.78%.
A further 1% is put into the fee pool this time at no cost to the spender, which the spender will also benefit from, depending on their types of participation.

There is a very positive contrast between the two.

Spreads
If you want to also include the spread between buy/sell prices of the asset you are spending, then two of the assets that card users might spend have current spreads of
  • KAU/USD - 0.12%
  • BTC/USD - 0.03%
There are wider spreads for KAG/USD (1%) and some of the other cryptos.
I remember when KAU/USD was more like 1% and KAG/USD was over 3%, so there have been ongoing improvements, which are likely to continue as volumes increase.

FX
When the old card was first introduced, there were some FX costs when the spend currency wasn't USD.
This was due to a loading applied to the FX mid-rate at time of transaction.
Out of interest, I checked a couple of the more recent transactions (one in EUR and one in GBP).
As far as I could tell, they were pretty close to the mid-rate.
This was a small sample of two and may not have been consistent for all spend currencies.

It will be interesting to see how this works for the new card.

I am just weary because there is no such thing as a free lunch
As others have said, it's the Kinesis ethos to share and provide a fair-for-all system.
A central part of this is to promote everyday use of sound money.

It fits well into the following comments from Vaultside episode 4:
for Kinesis to be truly successful, we need to go to the mass market.
...
If we can bring them into the Kinesis system via legal tender currency, but just do it better than anyone else in the market
...
bring people in and then we can drip feed on the educational side we can highlight all the benefits of sound money and we can we can showcase what we have.


While there's no doubt more to come, Merchant Metalback currently offers a way of participating with legal tender currency. For someone that dips their toe in via that route, the new Kinesis card will provide a good incentive to purchase and spend KAU/KAG/crypto.


The new Kinesis card compares very favourably against a quick check of the best cashback credit/debit cards available in the UK.
 
Afternoon @Gary L

In terms of knowing stuff about Kinesis, how about Uchikipaedia setting the ten questions for this event?

Kinesis’ Krazy Kristmas Kwiz

How: Zoom audio only.

When: 1pm BST, Monday 23rd December.

Who: forum users.

Winner's Prize from Kinesis: 2 KAG, one by post.

To Quizmaster: 2 KAG to Uchiki for setting the questions and to have the final say (otherwise he’d win anyway).

Duration: one hour.

Dress code: silly hat, even though audio only, **in addition to** being fully clothed.

Next quiz prize: one golden Easter egg (a KAU).
 
Afternoon @Gary L

In terms of knowing stuff about Kinesis, how about Uchikipaedia setting the ten questions for this event?

Kinesis’ Krazy Kristmas Kwiz

How: Zoom audio only.

When: 1pm BST, Monday 23rd December.

Who: forum users.

Winner's Prize from Kinesis: 2 KAG, one by post.

To Quizmaster: 2 KAG to Uchiki for setting the questions and to have the final say (otherwise he’d win anyway).

Duration: one hour.

Dress code: silly hat, even though audio only, **in addition to** being fully clothed.

Next quiz prize: one golden Easter egg (a KAU
Sounds like like a plan Alex. I like quizzes but I don’t like my chances. I'll be in Paris by then and I’ll already make excuses with the jet lag. But sounds fun and we should give it a go.
 
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I'm still trying to understand the cost of the paid card. I've seen US77, EURO77, and GBP77. I still don't know the cost to Canadians. Is it US77 or do we get to use 77 discounted CAD$?

Maybe these geographic prices won't survive launch.
 

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