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GBP/Euro on-ramp

S

Stanley

New member
I've been aware of Kinesis for some years but I finally opened an account at the end of last year. I was immediately frustrated to find that there was no simple on-ramp for deposits in GBP. Yes I know there ware ways of doing it via Wise or Revolut but it all just seems like a can of worms - an about as reliable as a message in a bottle.

Back in the Q3-Q4 2022 update the GPB/Euro on ramp was coming "this quarter".
In the Q4-Q1 2023 update they were "looking towards a Q1 release".
In the Q1-Q2 update they were "making significant progress".
In the Q2-Q3 update the new deposit options were "coming online".

At this rate I'll be able to buy the new BRICS currency before I can get any money into Kinesis.
 
I think they’ve been hit by headwinds because the US is BRICing it! 😉

It’s frustrating but Kinesis know it’s key to its success so I’m sure they’re doing all they can. Kinesis is trying to introduce a new monetary system which is going to get some serious headwinds because t’s implications are massive, beyond my comprehension if I’m honest 🤔
 
Patience, folks. There’s a road map. In the past Kinesis would likely have made an announcement to let you know the plan; I think current Kinesis has learned partners sometimes don’t perform on schedule, and will announce this once it’s live.

Like ApplePay. It works, but no announcement yet because there are apparently still issues for some.

It’s coming.
 
Stanley said:
I've been aware of Kinesis for some years but I finally opened an account at the end of last year. I was immediately frustrated to find that there was no simple on-ramp for deposits in GBP. Yes I know there ware ways of doing it via Wise or Revolut but it all just seems like a can of worms - an about as reliable as a message in a bottle.

Back in the Q3-Q4 2022 update the GPB/Euro on ramp was coming "this quarter".
In the Q4-Q1 2023 update they were "looking towards a Q1 release".
In the Q1-Q2 update they were "making significant progress".
In the Q2-Q3 update the new deposit options were "coming online".

At this rate I'll be able to buy the new BRICS currency before I can get any money into Kinesis.
Click to expand...
Not that complicated if you actually want to fund your account.

As Derek said, local funding is coming, which will make things more accessible for wider adoption.
You might find the references to Vaultside 2 in this post of interest.
 
@Stanley your troubles are over now!
You can use Faster Payments from any UK bank account now to move funds into Kinesis for FREE!
I already tried this myself from two different accounts and it was flawless.

Depositing GBP via local bank transfer

A new UK local deposit via sort code and account number is now available in the web application. This hasn't yet been announced, but has been successfully used. It's also not yet shown in the mobile apps. With it being a local bank transfer within the UK, it seems to use the Faster Payments...
forum.kinesis.money forum.kinesis.money
 
This is awesome.
Kinesis is coming to live now my friends.
Straight forward stacking from now on.
And if anyone happens to overdo it with the stacking it's easy to convert back or spend from the debit card if needed.
Personally, I plan to DCA every month from now on.
Saving in gold and silver seems 100% better than banks.
 
With Lloyds I can even set-up a standing order to Kinesis including my KM reference. I may start a monthly deposit after payday.

WISE have been a bit flakey over the last few months, they even refused me a transfer of GBP to Indonesia, I just hope they're not going to bail-out at some point.
 
The issue i have had with the non-dollar currencies has been the spreads for the Kinesis coin pairs. I haven't taken a lot of notice but i think there was more volume in the GBP and EUR Kinesis coin pairs yesterday - there was actually over 70k € volume in the KAG/EUR pair in the last 24 hours. From memory that is good compared with previous volume.

For now i will continue to take the
GBP bank --> Wise --> Currency Exchange to USD --> Kinesis USD account
​
But good to see there is better volume which may translate into tighter spreads - always helpful if you decide to use the debit card when the physical version appears - as i would be spending in GBP and EUR.
 
sixgun said:
The issue i have had with the non-dollar currencies has been the spreads for the Kinesis coin pairs. I haven't taken a lot of notice but i think there was more volume in the GBP and EUR Kinesis coin pairs yesterday - there was actually over 70k € volume in the KAG/EUR pair in the last 24 hours. From memory that is good compared with previous volume.

For now i will continue to take the
GBP bank --> Wise --> Currency Exchange to USD --> Kinesis USD account
​
But good to see there is better volume which may translate into tighter spreads - always helpful if you decide to use the debit card when the physical version appears - as i would be spending in GBP and EUR.
Click to expand...

That should work, but I guess it will then be a SWIFT transaction again with associated fee. So you have to weigh the extra SWIFT fee + GBP to USD conversion against free Faster Payment onramp in GBP but somewhat higher spread.

Looking at the KAU spreads (from MM):
GBP: 0.41%, EUR: 0.37%, USD: 0.18%

A GBP to USD conversion in Wise is already 0.44%, so I think that for KAU you'll be better off sending GBP straight. For KAG it might work out somewhat better, depending on the amount send and the orderbook.
 
I'll have to see how much it is either way when i come to do a transfer.
I do the GBP --> USD exchange with Wise and move the money to the Kinesis Wise USD account. This account is with the same bank branch as i have my USD Wise account with - i'm not expecting any charges for that transfer.

So it all depends on the cost of the GBP --> USD exchange.
It looks like it might cost me 0.47% for the whole thing right now.

Usually when i send money over it gets involved in minting. That is a USD exclusive activity.
So if i send USD i hold them in my Exchange account and at the right time i sell KAU into dollars and then send all of the dollars to the Mint. If i feel when i send the cash to the Exchange there is room for the KAU price to rise it may be worth sending GBP and buying KAU to get a bit of alpha on that. Then i can sell as much KAU as i need into dollars and send those to the Mint.

IMO and for me it is still worth minting. i don't do back-to-back minting recycling anymore - i time my KAU sales and when i subsequently mint. i can usually save on the minting process - sometimes i mint for a profit and get the KVT credits at the same time. It can be done, it is as usual all about timing and having some luck and nerve.

Since we noticed that the total KAU pool eligible for Minter's yield has fallen quite a bit, the Minter's yield has become more attractive - well for me anyway. i racked up a lot of triple yielding minting in the past. This has encouraged me to keep going and probably just keep going after the KVT offer has run out. When those in the community reign in their minting and potentially market makers have to mint as the KAU's in circulation need to expand, this will reverse the Minter's yield dilution and my minting will really kick in. All those all nighter minting sessions when you could only transfer during Australian office hours could start to pay off. :cool:
 
sixgun said:
The issue i have had with the non-dollar currencies has been the spreads for the Kinesis coin pairs
Click to expand...
I've made some CAD purchases of KAU/KAG recently. I have to pay the ask since volume is limited and my cost is around 0.3% higher.

Now that I can deposit in USD again I'll have to look into my best option.
 
sixgun said:
The issue i have had with the non-dollar currencies has been the spreads for the Kinesis coin pairs.
Click to expand...

Yes, Until I started looking at Kinesis with real money to spend I didn't notice that there were separate order boards for KAU and KAG in each currency. I my ignorance I'd assumed that it was the same order board with just a currency conversion. As you say, there are wider spreads and less depth in the GBP boards as compared with USD.
I still don't see why they did it this way. Why not convert all incoming funds into USD and just have a single order board for each currency? They even tell me my balance in USD on the dashboard even though I can only spend GBP. Is there a way to convert GBP to USD inside the Kinesis system?
 
Stanley said:
Is there a way to convert GBP to USD inside the Kinesis system?
Click to expand...
No direct FX conversion in KMS.

You can buy KAU/GBP and sell KAU/USD to get from GBP to USD, but that's not the drift of your post.

If you only want to trade the USD pairs, send USD in from a USD account or an intermediary like Wise, XE or CurrencyFair.
 
The spreads are what they are. If more people start using non-USA pairs it might get tighter.

You can do a lot of things but the issue is why are the relative spreads in non-USD currency pairs wider?
The gold is all the same. It is the same gold in the same vaults.

i presume the market makers are operating in USD. Anything coming at them other than USD will be converted into USD. The gold market is still running on USD so when you make a trade in GBP or EUR, chances are the market makers will convert these to USD. There is a cost in that. The spread on platforms like Interactive Brokers for the major currencies are very tight. Much tighter than with outfits like Wise. Changing £1000 is one transaction is no different to changing £1million but the administration 'costs' per £1 are less. So the spreads could get tighter if the volume of a non-USD currency increased. We will have to see. The difference is not so massive - if your cash could be available as fast as the UK bank transfer 'faster payment system' you could potentially do the trade faster and got a better price and the difference in spread doesn't matter.

i have given it a go sending GBP to Kinesis. i probably think i will revert to USD but let's see.
 
Uchiki - I would really prefer to stick to GBP. Just a bit disappointed to find that the KAG/GBP bid/offer spread is around 2.2% when I can buy silver in GBP on Bullionvault with a spread of 0.2 - 0.5%.
It just means that the KAG would have to appreciate by around 3% before you break even.
 
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